Category Archives: web science

This blogging about poetry mularkey

I don’t understand the blog in that I haven’t worked out where it fits in the scheme of things and what it might do that’s different from a web site or a Facebook entry (or whatever they might be called). I’m also completely mystified by tumblr but I suspect that it might be this week’s future. In the interests of trying to keep up, I did ask someone about tumblr this morning but he wouldn’t tell me.

Prior to starting this blog I didn’t know that I could write about poetry. I knew that I could write and has a reasonably long list of subjects that I could write about but my thinking on the poetic seemed too wound up with and complicated by my own attempts at poetry making for anything remotely useful to emerge.

I still don’t think I can write about poetry at anywhere near the level that I’d like to (somewhere between Alastair Fowler and Helen Cooper) but the miracle that has occurred is that I can write stuff that other people take an interest in and feel sufficiently involved to make a response. The other miracle is that these responses are without exception both intelligent and (this is important) well-mannered. Some of these are so well thought out and expressed that I need to think long and hard about a suitable / appropriate response.

The other thing is that I read very few blogs and the majority of these aren’t about poetry. I look at Mark Woods, Mrs Deane and Rio Wang every day, I look at Dylan Trigg and Language Hat every other day and a number of photography and design mags every week but the attention I pay to poetry blogs is sporadic. I once had the Jacket site open whenever I was on-line but these days that honour has passed to the Claudius App and TEAMS Middle English index pages because they manage to hold my interest and Jacket2 doesn’t.

So, this is a digressive way of saying that what follows is highly speculative and probably badly worked out. The first of these relates to the difference between my web site, arduity, and these pages. I was going to say that I put more of myself into this and try to be more objective with arduity but that isn’t really what’s going on. The main difference is that I’ve got a plan for arduity and I don’t for bebrowed. They’re both ‘about’ difficult or complex poetry and they’re both intended to be useful but arduity is written with more focus on encouraging confidence to tackle this stuff whereas bebrowed follows the wavering fancies that occupy my head.

I’m now going to try and get technical. If we think of all things poetic as a relatively autonomous ‘information order’ as described by Sir Christopher Bayly then, right now, a lot of things / processes / events are taking place. The first and most obvious of these is the effect of the one to many gizmo which means that a poem can be circulated / displayed, responded to and that response can be responded to within a very short space of time. The other process that is taking place is that of circulation prior to whatever publication might mean. I and others have drafts and have commented publicly on these drafts many months in advance of publication, I have also written with puppy dog enthusiasm about at least one poem that has been circulated but probably won’t ever be published. There are parallels here with poetic practice before and after the printing press, both Donne and Marvell only had manuscripts in circulation during their lives, all their work (with a couple of minor exceptions) was published after their death

The second is the exponential growth in self indulgence. The web is now cluttered with poetry that has never been subject to the editorial glare. Last year I posted something that consisted entirely of Gillian Welch set lists in chronological order as well as the versification of the labels used on maps of Sector 5 for the Saville Inquiry into Bloody Sunday. Neither of these would have ever been ‘published’ in the world of print and constitute an act of the worst kind of self-expression. The sad fact is that I don’t care, they’re on the blog primarily because I like them and feel they need to exist outside of my head. In mitigation I would say that I don’t do it very often and only when I feel that there is some kind of imperative.

Anyway, it now transpires that I have a readership and I try not to think about this because that might inhibit or modify what I want to say which is usually a blow-by-blow attempt to work out some kind of conclusion and / or structure. The blog also allows me to fly a number of intensely speculative kites safe in the knowledge that on or two readers will bring me back to ground- poetry as performance on the page being the most recent example.

I like to think that the well mannered responses are in part due to my decision to only write about poetry that I like and to try and pretend that the rest doesn’t exist. There are exceptions to this (Jarvis’ ‘Dinner’, Prynne’s ‘Sub Songs’) but they prove the rule. This isn’t formulated froma moral stance, it’s simply that I don’t find it very interesting demolishing poems even when they thoroughly deserve to be so treated. I have set myself this challenge of writing enthusiastically about material that I feel deserves to be better known and appreciated and I don’t have any problem at all with the fact that I am occasionally in a very small minority. I know from bitter personal experience of bulletin boards and blogs in another sphere that things can rapidly become needlessly conflictual and I’m very pleased that this hasn’t occurred here.

There’s also this feeling that something really important is happening to this particular information order but we only catch glimpses of what this might be, I keep trying to list the things that blogging has made me think about and discover, I try to examine my traffic stats as if these might give me more of a clue but most of the time this is just a collection of instinctive stabs in the dark unless I get prodded into elaborating on the technical prowess on display in ‘The Anathemata’ which means that I have an excuse to read it again…

A final point, this tries hard not to be either lit crit or the reviewing of books, what it does attempt is an honest statement of the fruits of readerly attention and I am very pleased that others find bits of it to be useful- in the sense that Richard Rorty intended.

Jonty Tiplady blog (3)

December 9th 2011 up to 6.40pm

jonty tiplady blog 3
bebrowed 2
tl61p 2
shibboleth derrida 1
crucified evidence 1
obscure poem 1
anarchical plutocracy geoffrey hill 1
clavics 1
emily dorman montefiore 1
upon appleton house 1
find f(2), f(3) , f(4) ,and f(5) if f is defined recursively by f(0) = -1 , f(1) = 2 and for n = 1 , 2 ,…… 1
andrew marvell upon appleton house 1
the philosophy of estar wings by herbart 1
very good thing’s dionysus did 1
keston sutherland stressnposition 1
easter wings poem’s shape mimic 1
anarchical plutocracy 1
geoffrey hill 1
geoffrey hill anarchic plutocracy 1
obscure good poems 1
the importance of poetry 1
geoffrey hill clavics 1
lyrical rhymes 1
geoffrey hill economist 1
jonty tiplady 1
geoffrey hill allen tate 1

Poetry, collaboration and web science.

After several weeks of serious bullying from my children I’m thinking of applying to do a web science phd at Southampton. Web science has a number of definitions but it would appear to involve the tricky business of looking at how web technologies interact with other areas of human activity and trying to see if things can be improved.
I’m interested in this stuff because I think the internet is the single most important development for many centuries and I’m excited by the fact that we have not yet begun to work out its potential.
Whilst being bullied, I had a look at some of the research in this area and one sentence in particular caught my eye. This made the point that the web has the potential to transform the figure of the artist as an isolated figure into something more collaborative. I then spent some time thinking how this might apply to poetry. At the same time I was trying to keep up with the various drafts of Sutherland’s ‘Odes’ which was leading me to think about completion and authenticity.
In terms of web science, 10 or so years ago my business partner and I developed a self-assessment gizmo for people in the UK to see if they might qualify for disability benefits. This device, together with the relevant content pages has been running since 2001 with about 150 people each day completing the self-assessment process. Even though nothing has been done to the site since we sold it last year, it is still favoured by Google and people continue to find it useful. Which is a long way of saying that I know that gizmos are popular. I then saw that poetry has got a lot of rules for various forms and genres and that it might be useful to think about some kind of validation gizmo (similar to code validation gizmos the we use when building web pages and style sheets).
People could then submit (for example) a sonnet and then have the validator tell them whether there sonnet meets the standard definition. In addition a poetry reference centre would be useful in providing descriptions of various forms and genres together with examples. Of course this would involve the validator being able to recognise rhyme and rhythm (the key components of verse) but developing such a tool alongside those with technical expertise would seem a fascinating way to spend my time.
I then thought a bit more about collaboration and whether the net could actually enhance that process and whether there was a need to do it in the first place. Thinking about my own stuff, there are some poems that are very very personal to me and that I’d want to retain a degree of control over. There are other poems / drafts of poems that would certainly benefit from additions and amendments from others. This would seem to apply to poems that are longer and more expansive in theme and I’d also welcome amendments to poems that I’m not entirely happy with. I then thought about amending published poems that I like and admire to see what that was like. I’ve since had enormous fun rewriting lines and phrases from Hill’s ‘The Mercian Hymns’ and Ashbery’s ‘The Skaters’. Doing this with these two has forced me to think much harder about what they were trying to say and whether there are different ways to say it, I’ve spent the last week thinking about one paragraph from Hill and Ashbery’s ‘mild effects’.
Anyway, feeling somewhat heartened I then started to think about how this would work on the web. Currently this has two main phases-
1. People would be encouraged to submit ideas for poems. This could include subject matter, form and genre and would then be displayed and could be further amended by others.
2. People could then submit drafts in accordance with the specification and each of the drafts would be available for amendment.
So, I might specify an epic written in Spenserian stanzas about the Troubles. Someone else may want to write something similar but in heroic couplets (or free verse) and submit that as a specification and both of these may attract submissions and amendments. There would be a requirement to write within the specification, any variation on this would still be displayed but within the amended spec.
The I got a bit carried away and thought that it would be useful if each spec could ‘programme’ the validator as it was being written so that subsequent amendments and contributions could then be objectively measured for conformance.
It then occurred to me that this would undermine the idea of the poet as an individual but that it would mean that poems (being always liable to amendment) would never be complete or definitive. Continuing to feel pleased with myself, I then formulated the following research questions-
1. What motivates people to collaborate in this way?
2. How should indexing be done?
3. Which types of poems attract the most collaborators?
4. Is there a point where the poem stops improving (if it improves at all)?
5. Do the people who use the validator for their own stuff also go on to collaborate with others?
6. Does the use of a validator stifle creativity / innovation?
7. How would search work?
At this point I realised that I might be disappearing in yet another flight of chronic self-indulgence so this is essentiall a plea for feedback of any description before I start drawing the diagrams and flow charts…